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Bill Troy, Donald Kelly, The Sales Evangelist, Online Marketing, Click Sand

TSE 686: This Is Why Online Marketing Is NOT Working For You!

Bill Troy, Donald Kelly, The Sales Evangelist, Online Marketing, Click SandAre automation and process the same thing? Nope. Not always.

Our guest today thinks online marketers are taking businesses off on a wrong path. And we discuss how you can correct your course. It’s never too late.

Today’s guest is Bill Troy. He is soon releasing a book called, Click Sand: How the Pitchmen of Online Marketing Suck You In and Ruin Your Business.

Bill is an Inc 500 CEO and running a business is his expertise, especially when it comes to marketing.

Are Tools Good or Bad?

The tools are neither good nor evil. They are just tools. The problem is the people selling them to you. They sell them as though it solves every problem you have.

Problem is that most people doing online marketing start with a tool, instead of starting what you need to accomplish. Then you are led astray. You start to change your business to fit the tool instead of making sure you pick the tool after you know how your business works.

3 Top Things that Work in Online Marketing

1. Understand what the other person on the other side needs from you. The more this leans toward the relationship side of things, and not just an anonymous transaction, that where you have to be careful with a lot of this online stuff. Think about what they need. Then build it around that.

2. Rather than using LinkedIn to strip mine titles and get a list of 3,000 people to send to, use LinkedIn to figure out what that prospect is into, what non profits they support, their education, etc.

3. Define what exactly the relationship is. A relationship is when they respond to you and you interact. Then build a process to fit that and do it regularly and consistently.

What Do You Do When You Want to Scale Your Business? 

1. Scale up by getting bigger customers versus smaller customers.

Either do more and more of the same activity efficiently or try to get bigger customers you can invest in. Most businesses look at smaller deals where they could go faster. And the techniques they use blow off large customers. They end up chasing small clients all the time.

2. Have both selling process and relationship process.

Sometimes, it’s not the right time to sell because it’s time to build a relationship. And if you have a client that needs that, put a process in place to build those relationships. And when it’s time to sell, then sell. These two things are not the same thing.

How to Become More Effective as a Seller:

1. Think of relationships in terms of people, not just companies.

  • Sellers tend to think of companies or brands, not individual people.
  • Sellers often forget there are people involved behind their client companies.

2.Follow up with your clients.

When you look at what really works, sometimes it’s not the thing that’s the most efficient, but it’s the thing that’s most effective.

3. Have a process and test it if it works for your industry. 

  • Just start with some system or process that is repeatable and consistent.
  • A process could be as simple as remembering to do something nice for someone on a day that’s important to them.
  • So just put something in your CRM to remind you why you’re doing it and to keep track of those activities.
  • A system basically involves repeating it and consistently doing it.

Bill’s Major Takeaway:

Start watching what people do with you, what kind of emails come into your inbox today, and what kinds of messages do you see that make you want to buy from them. Now that you see what works for you, are you doing this for other people?

There is this sense of denial in the sales world. We hate it when we get it ourselves but somehow we think our junk’s going to get noticed. Start looking at what other people do that delight you. Start using yourself as a guinea pig. Then do what you like to other people.

Episode Resources:

Check out Bill’s book Click Sand on www.clicksand.net/salesevan. Bill has put Chapter 5 up discussing the psychology of how online marketing can damage businesses.

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Upselling, Dr. Carrie Rose, Donald Kelly, The Sales Evangelist

TSE 358: How To Increase Sales Through Effective UpSelling Offers

Upselling, Dr. Carrie Rose, Donald Kelly, The Sales Evangelist Today, we’re going to talk about how to increase sales through up selling offers. But first of all, I’ve got a few questions for you:

  • Are you currently making sure that you are up selling to your customers or are you too afraid to ask?
  • What kind of product can you create on the front end that makes your product or service be the upsell?

We have a very exciting topic on the show today and joining me is Dr. Carrie Rose. She is a Partner with Brand Legend Inc., that handles digital branding for clients where she specifically focuses on online course creation and info product creation.

Here are the highlights of my conversation with Carrie:

Once you’ve made the sale, you’re 6-7 times more likely to make another sale from that same customer if they are happy and satisfied.

Reason for failure to upsell: Fear

Are you good enough to make the sale? Are you enough to offer value in a more interesting way? Fear can play a role in this. But do you know your customer? Do you know what your customer wants? Checking in with people is the best way to start.

Ways to check in with your potential customers:

  • Surveys
  • Split testing
  • Reaching out to your current clients

Effective strategies for upselling:

  1. Reach out.

Reach out and find out what kind of product they’re wanting and develop that for them.

  1. Put a price on it.

People tend to attach more value to something they paid for. When they get something for free, they don’t necessarily value it and the same if you give it to them too low. Putting a price on it a little higher makes them respect it more and listen more.

Sometimes, too, having a cheaper item takes 2-10x work to sell it to one person versus having a higher price and you won’t have to sell it as much. With a higher end product, you earn more while using less time and less resources.

  1. Have the desire to just jump in and do it.

Sheer determination is key. Creating a course is a financial investment. But it’s a matter of pulling the trigger and giving it a go. Take the risk. Get uncomfortable in order to take chances.

  1. Desire less for perfectionism.

People are afraid to launch because they want everything to be perfect. And it’s never perfect until you launch. It’s never perfect until you get that feedback that tells you how to change it from the people experiencing it on the other side. Just go, see, and find out.

  1. Less transactional, more relational.

Whether you’re automating a process or not, understand that before the money was in your bank account, it was in somebody else’s bank account. Do personal phone calls when you follow up with them.

How to build yourself to take risks:

  1. Take action.

The magic that happens from going. The magic that happens from momentum. You can have a vision board all day long, but unless you do something about it nothing will happen.

  1. Ask for it.

Be brave about it. If you find out you’re asking for a price that is not selling, then change the product or service or price. You basically get data from it and it’s where you can make your decisions on.

  1. Make it a habit.

When is the right time to upsell? Always. Just always ask for it.

Upselling Lines and Phrases:

Be natural. How can you be natural? Build that personal relationship first. When you’re invested in your clients, it’s a lot easier to ask. You’re asking from a place of heart and not from a place of trying to make money.

Carrie’s Major Takeaway:

Ask. Develop a method for feedback you can tie to your business that works for you. Find a system that makes it personal. Develop a series of questions inside of your business to clarify how you’re supporting them. Find out what else they want. Make sure you’re focused on them and doing your research.

Episode Resources:

Get connected with Carrie on www.drcarrierose.com or www.brandlegend.us. Also find her on Facebook.

Get a free audiobook download and a 30-day free trial at audibletrial.com/tse with over 180,000 titles to choose from for your iPhone, Android, Kindle or mp3 player.

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The Sales Evangelist, Donald Kelly, Donald C. Kelly


Cody Lister, Blogging, Content Marketing, The Sales Evangelist

TSE 336: Selling Online Is Easier Than You Think

Cody Lister, Blogging, Content Marketing, The Sales EvangelistIf you think guest blogging has nothing to do with helping you grow your sales, well, don’t overlook it. Today, we have Cody Lister on the show as he shares a whole ton of blogging and content promotion techniques and strategies you can implement to help you grow your business or increase your sales specifically when you’re selling online.

Cody Lister runs a pay-per-click management agency and he also runs his own blog and networks with influencers while getting his guest posts published by top blogs.

Here are the highlights of my conversation with Cody:

Does pay-per-click still exist?

  • More companies are actually getting on it everyday.
  • An effective way to drive leads for your business as long as you know your target audience well
  • Make sure you’re targeting is on point to reach the right people and not waste ad spent.

How to utilize blogging to grow your business:

  1. Set up a foundation for your blog with pillar content or post.

Content or posts should be between 3,000 and 10,000 words long each that revolve around your target audience’s desires, fears, and what keeps them up at night.

  1. Make sure you have a unique position in the market.

Pick one niche that you’re going to focus on. Instead of just sales, make it sales to a specific type of customer within a certain niche.

  1. Start guest blogging.

Posting on other people’s blogs as a guest allows you to build back links and some traffic to your blog.

  1. Continue blogging and promote your content heavily.

Perform content pre-outreach by reaching out to influencers and other bloggers that share similar content as yours. Reach out to them via email. Search through BuzzSumo for similar posts and get Twitter shares and the email addresses of these people. Reach out to them to let them know and give a heads up that you’re about to publish a specific post about a topic they liked in the past. Scrape the commenters of different blog posts that relate to your topic. Get their email addresses and reach out to them as a content pre-outreach to give them a heads up of your upcoming post.

  1. Form a content strategy and build relationships with other bloggers.

Have pillar content in the middle and splinter off pieces of that content or talk in more depth of specific topics that relate to that content so it becomes a spider web.

  1. Seed your content with influencers on referral networks like inbound.org or GrowthHackers.

Once you’ve teamed up with bloggers, you can use one-click email opt-ins to get them to give you more subscribers. Through these tools, you get bloggers to email their list about you or about a link to something that you’re sharing with them. Once they click that link, you automatically get their email addresses.

  1. Build up your email base and funnel subscribers through an email automation sequence.

This allows you to nurture subscribers up to a certain pitch at the end.

  1. Advertise.

You can go on Facebook but if you don’t have experience, don’t just wing it or it will be a waste of time and money. But you can hire someone who does Facebook ads well. Promote lead magnets to build your email subscriptions through Facebook ads. You may also use Twitter ads through lead generation cards to drive new email subscriptions. Or use Outbrain and Taboola to use paid content promotion. Get on podcasts.

  1. Promote content through pre-outreach.

Build up the anticipation for a post you’re about to publish and make your content more epic than your competitor’s content including content upgrades and embedding those inside your post. Once you’ve clicked a link on your post, you can opt-in to your email list.

  1. Optimize your post for SEO.

This may take a while for you to get any return from this. Read blogs like Backlinko and Quick Sprout for advice on SEO optimization. Install the WordPress SEO plugin.

  1. Make sure the questions you’re answering in your posts are very specific.

Make sure it’s one question per post and really hit on the desires, needs, and wants of your audience. Make sure it demonstrates that you understand the language of your audience.

  1. Get good at copywriting.

Avoid using corporate jargons. You should be writing posts that feel like you’re talking directly to someone.

  1. Use giveaways to increase opt-ins to your mailing list.

Focus on your list growth. Learn from Bryan Harris of Videofruit who has great ideas for list building.

  1. Build a list and start getting opt-ins to your blog right off the bat.

Make sure you have a welcome gate on your blog that captures opt-ins. Make sure everything is focused on opt-ins and you have a sales funnel.

Strategies to make your posts more interesting:

  1. Leverage YouTube videos.

Blogs like Social Triggers and Marie Forleo publish a lot of video content that drive a fair amount of traffic.

  1. Infographics

These are effective but expensive. Invest in designers to make infographics for your blog as they tend to lead to more opt-ins and better content quality.

  1. Interactive content

Create many different forms such as an in-post interactive list such as Backlinko (Brian Dean’s blog) where he has SEO tool reviews which you can click and review interactively. Another example is a quiz or assessment by Social Triggers blog that funnel Facebook ad visitors to a sidebar opt-in.

  1. Slider calculators.

These demonstrate the value or investment of what you’re trying to convey to your audience. You can use this on sales pages and regular blog posts.

Tools to make images more captivating:



Cody’s Major Takeaway:

Don’t write off guest blogging because it’s how you’re going to build the high domain authority backlinks for your blog which is essential when starting a blog and for getting your content to rank on Google eventually. It’s a slow process but don’t overlook it. Reach out and get acceptance from other bloggers when they see you’re on authority and you’re published on top blogs.

Episode Resources:

Learn more about Cody via email cody@marketdoc.com or visit his website at www.marketdoc.com and download a free guest blogging guide at www.marketdoc.com/guest-blogging.

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Social Triggers

Marie Forleo blog




Quick Sprout


The Sales Evangelist, Donald Kelly, Donald C. Kelly

Eric Siu, Donald Kelly, Content Marketing, The Sales Evangelist Podcast

TSE 290: How Content Marketing Can Increase Your Sales Leads

Eric Siu, Donald Kelly, Content Marketing, The Sales Evangelist PodcastIs content still king? We’re going to talk about this and more on the show today as we bring in Eric Siu as he talks about the power of content marketing.

Eric Siu owns a digital marketing agency called Single Grain which he established in 2009 where they help companies from venture-backed startups to Fortune 500 companies grow their revenues online using different digital marketing strategies around SEO, content marketing, paid advertising, and connect everything together.

Eric is also the host of the podcast Growth Everywhere as he talks with entrepreneurs, tech people and markets about business and personal growth with more emphasis on the marketing side. He is also a regular contributor to several publications such as Forbes, Entrepreneur Magazine, Business Insider, Fast Company, and more.

Here are the highlights of my conversation with Eric:

Is content still king?

  • Content is king. Bad content is definitely NOT.
  • If you’re producing 300-500 word articles and think you’re going to get by, well, times have changed.
  • Studies suggest that the top three results in Google are usually close to 2,000 words or more
  • Provide in-depth content that provides actual utility to people.

What makes great content?

  • Provides utility over quantity
  • Utility means that your reader must be able to have one key takeaway after reading it.

What’s working in digital marketing today?

  • Gmail advertising (Yes! It exists. And a lot of people actually click through them.)
  • Videos (Periscope and Snapchat)
  • YouTube ads
  • Facebook video ads
  • Webinars

Use the power of Snapchat:

  • Gary Vaynerchuk is a great example
  • Tell a story to people to drive more conversations.

How to get a thousand TRUE fans:

Be consistent about blogging. You are going to suck at first but who cares? Not a lot of people are going to see it initially anyway. Eventually, it’s going to have a snowball effect. Opportunities will come and grow organically.

Don’t do everything at once.

You’re not going to have a budget to vet out each channel. See traction with one channel first and then 10x or 100x it. Have a process. Have a strategy. Focus.

The power of having your personal morning routine:

  • The morning sets the tone for everything.
  • Journaling
  • Way of Life app
  • The 500 Journal recommended by Tim Ferris
  • Start your day with having three things to be grateful for and three things that are going to make your day great
  • Exercise

Eric’s major takeaway:

Creating content is only one part of it. Be willing to go out there and promote it. Spend 20% of your time for content creation and the other 80% of it promoting. You have to start somewhere. Stay consistent to reap the benefits down the road.

Connect with Eric on Twitter @ericosiu

Episode Resources:

Get a free audiobook download and a 30-day free trial at audibletrial.com/tse with over 180,000 titles to choose from for your iPhone, Android, Kindle or mp3 player.

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The Sales Evangelist, Donald Kelly, Donald C. Kelly

Meet Edgar, Laura Roeder, Social Selling, Donald Kelly, The Sales Evangelist

TSE 283: Meet My Friend Edgar

Meet Edgar, Laura Roeder, Social Selling, Donald Kelly, The Sales EvangelistWe know it’s important to create great content, but what is the point of creating great content if no one can see it? Well, that problem is solved with a great tool called “Meet Edgar”. Today I have the opportunity of speaking with the founder, Laura Roeder.

Laura began her entrepreneurial journey at the age of 22, when she quit a design job and decided to launch her first business. Since then, she founded B-School with Marie Forleo, has run successful courses of her own like Creating Fame, and was named a Top 100 Entrepreneur in America Under 30.

During our interview we had some great takeaways. Here are a few:

  • You won’t sell on Twitter or other social selling platforms. It’s a place for you to build relationships and then you can sell to them on your website or offline.
  • Don’t worry about cycling the same information over and over again because the same people won’t see the same post over and over again.
  • Edgar is awesome to connect with Twitter, LinkedIn and Facebook
  • Sales professionals should use social means to offer personal branding and establishing themselves as valuable thought leaders.
  • Do social media in a way that makes sense for you and your business.
  • A great way to share value is to utilize automated tools like Meet Edgar.

To stay in touch with Laura and meet Edgar by going to http://meetedgar.com/.

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The Sales Evangelist, Donald Kelly, Donald C. Kelly


Website Sales, Web Leads, Adam Hommey, The Sales Evangelist, Donald Kelly

TSE 225: Help My Website Sell

Website Sales, Web Leads, Adam Hommey, The Sales Evangelist, Donald Kelly Studies have shown that from the time somebody opts in on your site and becomes a part of your subscriber list for the first time, an average of 9 months will lapse from that point to the moment when they raise their hand and say “I’m on your list and really interested in this.”

Hmmmm… why not focus on really selling your website much quicker than average? Adam Hommey, who is my guest on today’s show, can certainly help us on this one.

Adam is the man behind www.helpmywebsitesell.com which works primarily with helping small-mid sized companies launch their products and services, create campaigns, and do promotions. Adam also creates engagement sequences and follow up sequences for select clients who opt in and he helps them walk through re-engagement campaigns.

Adam stresses the importance of not just to grow your list but to nurture it. Listen in for more great ideas from the man!

Here are the highlights of my conversation with Adam:

Strategies to start selling on your website:

  1. Remember that if you have a business and you’ve established anything online, you are a global business.

Even if you’re looking to do business locally, your local customers are looking into the global space to find you.

  1. Have content on your webpages that are optimized around questions or inquiries the way people would type them.
  1. Find out where your customer is hanging out “technologically.”

It could be in various forms like podcasts, YouTube, or email or any social media platform. You also have to think about where they’re hanging out in their head.

  1. Find out their top questions.

These are things you wish that people already knew before they walked in the door or called you up on the phone. Think about the questions you wish they would ask. These are the “should ask” questions.

  1. Have fun with it!
  1. Get your customers emotionally attached to your brand.

Create a user experience that enables you to bond with upcoming customers to helm your message and your brand without complicating things. What can you do to create that bond?

Adam’s Major Takeaway:

Many of the barriers that online business have put between themselves and their prospects are those that they create. Look at the reasons why somebody would be interested in your stuff in the first place, regardless of what it is. People buy based on emotions and then justify the facts.

Also check out Adam’s technique that you can use on your website and this works especially with online training events!
Get in touch with Adam on www.helpmywebsitesell.com or visit www.businesscreatorsinstitute.com and check out their entry level program (it’s free for now!) to help you learn tons of stuff including technical videos on how to spend less time editing and maintaining your website and more time educating your audience and monetizing your business.

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The Sales Evangelist, Donald Kelly, Donald C. Kelly

Michael Schein, The Sales Evangelist, Donald Kelly

TSE 166: Giving Yourself Away Will Improve Your Sales Immediately!  

Michael Schein, The Sales Evangelist, Donald KellyIn today’s episode, we teach you the power of giving yourself away. And that my friends, is also very much applicable when it comes to sales. Our awesome guest is Michael Schein. He is a writer over at inc.com and one of his articles that struck me “One Habit That Will Immediately Improve Your Sales”. The concept is to “give yourself away”.

Michael owns a content marketing & strategy firm, MicroFame Media, which works with companies that are looking to sell their complex or expensive products.

So, many companies now want to do online sales and marketing to drive business online. But it falls apart because they don’t have the time and the know-how. This is where their company comes in wherein they have a system that focuses on utilizing available resources and a systematic approach to create the kind of content that will drive their customer’s business.

After leaving his corporate job, Michael became a freelance copywriter. Leveraging on the power of using writing blueprints or templates to drive business, Michael has naturally transformed himself from being a writer to an owner of a marketing agency.

Here are the highlights of my conversation with Michael:

Two learning points from Michael’s evolution:

  • Recognize the pain businesses couldn’t solve.
  • Have a process!

Learning points from Michael’s article:

Give yourself away.

The way people buy today is way different than way back. If you’re selling a considered purchase, educate (or entertain a little bit).There’s no reason to be scared of giving value. Be online sharing as much great stuff about what you do as anyone. Always share what you know and what’s unique.

How do you do this?

  • Create a content that will drive those opportunities.
  • Become a professional in the business you’re in and not just in sales.
  • Become a thought leader by having your own podcast or blog or work with your marketing team to do speaking or different means to become an expert in your industry. You no longer have to close deals because they will naturally close for you because of your expertise.
  • Build your business without having to sell.
  • Build a “big enough” audience.
  • Invite persons of influence to appear on the blog or podcast.
  • Push of transmedia, which is storytelling across platforms (starting from one device and finishing up on another device)

Stop being a pitchman.

When you’re selling a complex solution to a problem…

  • Always have a strong pipeline by sharing what you know. Set yourself across as having interesting, unique ideas and a lot of people would come to you and may even want to collaborate with you.
  • Leverage different channels to be able to maximize your reach or your ability to extend yourself and give value.

Current projects Michael is working on:

New podcast coming!

Connect with Michael through email at mfs@microfamemedia.com or call him at 917-273-9885. If you guys have a question, Michael is more than happy to talk to you.

Michael’s Major Takeaway:

“A strong pipeline makes a lion. A weak pipeline makes a lamb.”

Focus on having as many opportunities in your deal flow as possible so you can be more gentle in turning them into business.

Episode resources:

Michael’s article on inc.com: One Habit That Will Immediately Improve Your Sales